Our hosts interview the award-winning author of the fantasy adventure series, Archives of the Night-Watchers, and the picture book, The World is Full of A**Holes. K.L. Harris (Kira Harris) recalls how her Waldorf education, global travel, and experiences as an actress inform her world-building. She shares the story of meeting her Australian Navy husband and discusses strategies for overcoming writer’s block through character backstories, visual boards, and consistent daily work, often thinking away from the keyboard while balancing responsibilities as a parent.
Show Notes
00:00 Meet K.L. Harris
01:26 Why Use Initials
03:27 Indie Film Memories
04:36 Waldorf School Impact
07:40 Travel Fuels Worlds
08:33 Life in Perth
10:05 Pirate Meets Sailor
13:23 From Acting to Writing
19:39 Equillian Book Series Plans
22:07 Overcoming Writers Block
27:03 Creativity without Pressure
29:58 Writing in Your Head
32:11 Bigger Books Banter
32:30 Why Write Picture Books
33:31 Picture Book Origin
36:37 Finding the Illustrator
38:33 Human Not Robot
39:53 Kid Friendly Versions
42:13 Voice Acting for Audiobooks
44:13 Recording Challenges and Growth
48:16 TV Series Adaptation
48:58 Final Thanks And Farewell
The episode was recorded on March 13, 2025.
Links
Make-Believe Press – Publisher Website
K.L. Harris – Author Website
Episode Transcript
Andrew: [00:00:00] I’m Andrew Zeller, joined by my co-host:
Carly: Carly Cheung. Hello, everyone.
Andrew: Hello. We, we are very excited to introduce our guest today. We are bringing to you, straight from Perth, Australia, the award-winning author K.L. Harris, who has written Equillian’s Key and the adult picture book, The World is Full of Beep Holes.
She serves as the managing director of Make Believe Press and is the co-writer of several award-winning short films. Harris holds a BA in acting for screen and stage. Born and raised in America, she now resides in Western Australia, as we mentioned, with her husband and two children. Her favorite pastimes include consuming stories of all kinds, surfing, traveling this [00:01:00] world, and creating portals into others.
To find out more about K.L. Harris, visit masterofmakebelieve.com or join us for this podcast.
Kira: Hi, guys.
Carly: Hello.
Kira: Oh, it’s so good to see you, Andrew, and it’s so lovely to meet you as well.
Andrew: Should we just say we’re here with professional author K.L. Harris the whole time?
Kira: Oh, no, it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter.
Yeah, no, I don’t mind either way. It goes- Yeah … I mean, K.L. Harris is my author name, but I use Kira Harris as well
Andrew: We actually, we were trying to guess, and maybe you can tell us, like what was behind that choice of using the, the initials?
Kira: KL Harris. Yeah, I decided to use that only because I know people who choose books by the gender of the author.
You know, they’re like, “I don’t really like female authors,” or, “I don’t really like male authors,” you know, either one. Mm-hmm. And I just didn’t want my gender to be a deciding [00:02:00] factor for the book. Mm-hmm. To kind of, for anybody to have any kind of preconceptions because of that, so I just thought keep it non-gender specific.
Andrew: Yeah, I personally do not like, uh, reading anything written by a female author, and my favorite author is Robert Galbraith.
Kira: Is… I’m guessing that’s a girl.
Andrew: It, it’s JK Rowling’s other name- … that she uses for her, for her mystery novels, yeah.
Kira: That’s awesome. I’ve actually never read any of her mystery novels.
How are they?
Andrew: I, well, I was actually lying because- Okay … A, I do like female authors and, and- I’m sure … B I’ve only read the first one, The Cuckoo’s Calling, and to be honest, not as good as Harry Potter. Oh. But I, I mean, I guess hard thing to beat, right?
Kira: Yeah,
Andrew: for sure. Um, but it’s just a different style and I, I was like, “Nah, it wasn’t really my thing.”
Kira: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I’m curious. Mm-hmm. I’ll have to read it some day just ’cause I’m curious. Yeah.
Andrew: Yeah. But I know, yeah, a number of authors who use that, and even like male authors, like I mean, there’s JRR Tolkien, there’s GK [00:03:00] Chesterton, there’s a lot who use the initials, so yeah, it seems to be a somewhat common practice.
Kira: For sure, yeah, and I have no idea. I mean, I’m curious about why they chose initials.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
Kira: You know, and I think when I was originally deciding, it was definitely, an influence from them as well, going, “Okay, this is something that these guys have done,” and I really like, you know, how that kind of takes me out of the picture.
It’s more about the story and less about who I am.
Andrew: A lot of things coming to mind, but the first thing I wanna say is Alvin wanted to be here, but he couldn’t. Um, he says hello, and I was reminding him of the experience when you were in California and we were filming a movie in my backyard, and you and my other friend were lying down on the grass looking up at the sky reciting your lines in the moment.
And then our camera was mounted to a little miniature crane and it started to break, and I think it almost fell on both of you. And thankfully it didn’t, because then, these books would not exist maybe, so [00:04:00] yeah.
Kira: Aw, those were such good times. I loved making those, those movies. One of my favorite memories was doing the kung fu stuff in the woods.
Yeah. And I remember I did a, right up the tree back flip-
Carly: What?
Andrew: Yeah.
Carly: Run up a tree and a back flip
Andrew: She’s quite acrobatic as well. That’s impressive. Well, you did circus- That’s impressive … circus train, like the-
Kira: I did. I went to a- … gym training … Steiner school, Waldorf school, and- Yeah … we actually had circus as part of our curriculum.
So we would do- Wow … acrobatics and stuff, and tightrope walking, and things like that at school. And I did gymnastics, so that helped a little bit.
Andrew: We, we wanted to actually ask, ask you about Waldorf, and particularly now that you’re a mom of two kids, like how do you feel that- form of education influenced you and is it something you’d recommend, or sort of bits and pieces that you liked?
Like, what do you feel about it?
Kira: Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, now that I’ve been out of school, ’cause of course going to school’s all I knew. You know- Mm-hmm … I never went to public school [00:05:00] until university. Now looking back at it, I’m really grateful I went to Waldorf. I actually, I wish I could send my kids to Waldorf, it’s just the only one here is way too far away.
It’s so creative and it’s got all the academics as well, but my favorite part of Waldorf is that it really teaches you to be an independent and critical thinker. And it teaches you about all the religions, which I absolutely loved.
Andrew: Mm. ‘
Kira: Cause I’ve always loved stories, but they taught you all the mythologies, like-
Andrew: Mm
Kira: Greek mythology, Norse mythology. They also had the kind of stuff from Christian Bible, and then they also did stuff from Hinduism and pyramids, Egypt, Yeah. Egyptian mythology. Words escape me very often. It’s, I just loved all of those stories, and I think that really helped me as a creator- Mm-hmm
because I had so many stories to draw from. Also, with the essays and things like that, it was very, “What are your thoughts on this?” [00:06:00] You know? There was never a lot of prompts. It was more about getting us to come up with our own ideas, and I’ve noticed that, how different that is from the public school system that my kids are going through now, where, you know, just for a prime example, coloring in, if you look at arts, um, at the public schools they’ll give a lot of coloring-in pages that are black outlines for you to fill in with color, whereas at a Waldorf school, it’s a blank page- Mm
and they have you, you know, they teach you drawing techniques and then just let you freeform. Um, and when you’re, when they’re telling you stories, you know, mythology stories or whatever else, they give you a piece of beeswax so you’re sitting there kind of molding something from the story as you’re listening, and- Mm
all that kind of stuff I just really loved. I think it did help me create unique stories because when I see things, I think of, “Oh, how could that be different?” My own takes on it instead of looking- Mm … for things I can kind of fill in with color, if that makes sense.
Andrew: [00:07:00] Do you think you, you actively are searching for, es- es- especially now, like things that are sort of out of the ordinary?
Or like, is that just sort of an attribute you’ve always had, or something that kinda developed over-
Kira: That’s a really interesting question. I mean, I’ve, I’ve always been like that, but that’s something I’ve noticed in Waldorf kids is that they are a little quirky. You know, they generally, they generally do like out of the box things and wear clothes that are a little bit out of the box and non-conformatives.
Mm. I’m not sure whether that’s just a me thing or, you know, I was influenced by that, because that’s encouraged at Waldorf as well. ‘
Andrew: Cause you’ve, you’ve also traveled quite a bit as well, and I’m, I’m sure would you say that that informs a lot of your sort of world building and creativity too?
Kira: Oh, for sure, 100%. Mm. I mean, that’s one of the things that I love so much about traveling is our world is so diverse. Mm. You know, going to another country almost [00:08:00] feels like going to entirely different world, because not only do you have different language, you know, different people look different, people dress different, different food, you know, and then, and different, completely different culture.
Mm. And that’s, when you’re world building, you know, it’s, it’s doing that. It’s, it could be another country as much as an entirely different world. You know, different flora and fauna and animals. It’s just, it’s so vastly different, so it’s one of my absolute favorite things is to go to other places and just submerge myself in their culture and, and their world.
Mm. I love that.
Andrew: Well, I, I wanted to ask you specifically about living in Perth and, because I know it’s in Western Australia, and that’s about all that I know. So, but Carly will have a better idea.
Carly: Well, I, I’ve never been to Perth, Kira, but my- Mm … sister moved there, uh, last year, so I might, I might visit.
But yes- Tell us about the things that will kill you.
Kira: It’s [00:09:00] funny actually, because it’s not as dangerous as everyone thinks it is. I think, I think Queensland is a different story, right? You got all the- Mm-hmm … really poisonous jellyfish, and the crocs and stuff out there. Whereas WA, I mean, there’s some spiders that will make you sick.
I used to think, ’cause my husband is very cautious of poisonous spiders, and very cautious of sharks and things like that, he’s actually more scared of them than I am. But I looked at- when I actually did research, all the spiders that I thought were completely deadly are actually not as deadly as I thought, they just will make you sick.
So it’s, it’s not too bad. And, you know, you just learn to look out for them. It’s like whenever you put your shoes on here, you look inside your shoes, you know? You know, you give them a knock before you put them on. You know, things like that. You don’t
Carly: wanna… Yeah, you don’t want your toe to touch a spider’s head.
Kira: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Andrew: And your husband is Australian, is that right?
Kira: [00:10:00] He is, yeah. Okay. He’s actually in Australian Navy. Yeah, and he’s Aussie.
Andrew: Can, can I ask the, the, the love story of how you met?
Kira: You can. Yeah, so I mean, I’ve always been obsessed with pirates and, the sea and stuff. And I was working just kind of on the side when I was, you know, trying to be an actor at this Irish pub called The Cock and Bull in Bondi Junction in Sydney.
It was this great Irish pub. Mm-hmm. And I actually worked in the gaming section, because in New South Wales in Australia gambling is legal. So most of the pubs will have like a little gaming section with pokie machines and stuff. So I actually… I had a good Thai friend who worked in the gaming department, so she got me the job there.
It was like me and a bunch of Thai girls, and I loved it. It was actually really fun.
Carly: Was this in the, your early 20s or-
Kira: It was. Yeah, it was in my early 20s. And so it was normally completely dead because not many people gamble in an Irish [00:11:00] pub, right? But yeah, it was a random Tuesday. I’d actually… It was my first shift back from being in America for just seeing my family for a bit, and I’d just swapped a shift with a friend as well, so it was completely random that I happened to be working that day.
And Ben, my husband was in Sydney for three days with the Navy on a training course, and he came into the gaming section just because he’d kind of been dragged to the pub and wasn’t very interested in going out that night. And he just came to put 20 bucks in the machine, and just started up a conversation with me, and we just started talking.
And then he got all of his friends to come over, and so all of… And they’re all in uniform. So all of these like Aussie sailors, and there was no seats at this bar ’cause it was the gaming bar. So they all pulled up the gaming seats from the pokie machines and lined them up to the bar- … and sat there.
But it like came up to here on them. And we just… [00:12:00] They just talked to me all night. It was really fun. And at the end of the night when they were leaving, Ben was like, “Can I get your number?” I was like, “Yeah, sure.” And he’s like, “What? You’re actually gonna give it to me?” So I gave him, I gave him my number, and then he called me a couple days later and was like, “We’re about to leave, but come out with us.”
So I did, and actually Ben hardly talked to me that night. So I was just talking to the other guys and said goodbye. But then after he went back to WA, ’cause that’s where he was stationed, we just started up like a phone conversation, and we talked every single night. And then he ended up- Aw … he, he proposed to me like- I think it was two months in.
But yeah, we talked every night- Oh my gosh … and then he came over to Sydney and then brought me to WA. So yeah, that’s the story. But yeah, I always tell, I always tell my daughter, and so it’s funny ’cause she’s got this story as how we met now. I said, “I was a pirate, and your dad was a Navy sailor, and he captured me.”
[00:13:00] Because at the time I was working in children’s entertainment as a pirate,
Carly: oh, wow.
Andrew: What, what I wanna know is in that story, were you in character that whole night talking to him and everyone there? And then when he actually met you the first time on the date, he was confused because you were no longer going, “Arr,” and yeah.
Okay. I wish.
Kira: That would make a much better story.
Andrew: Can you talk about the acting side of things a little bit? ‘Cause y- I think that’s, when you mentioned university, right? That’s what you studied?
Kira: That is, yeah.
Andrew: Is it? Stage and-
Kira: Yeah, for sure. So that was my big li- life pursuit when I was younger. I just, I really have always loved story. I’ve always loved characters, and that’s what drew me to acting, is I was like, “I can be in them.
I can be the characters. I can be in the movies and in the stories.” So yeah, I did theater growing up, and then transitioned into film when I was a teenager, and Andrew helped me with that with a few of his movies. That was really fun. And so yeah, I studied, in Australia because the [00:14:00] university there had a university course that was actually equal film acting and stage acting.
They had a professional TV studio, and had a television production course that worked hand-in-hand with the actors, so that’s what drew me there. And I loved it, and I kind of, I actually started making my own films when I was at university. But yeah, I always loved acting and pursued that very seriously after I graduated.
I moved to Sydney and, just did the whole actor thing. Got myself an agent. I worked for, the Australian Film and Television Academy. And so they got casting directors from the industry that would come and do workshops with actors which was really great. So I started working for them as a cinematographer just so that I could get in front of casting directors as kind of like my way in So I did that for years.
I started to just kind of get a leg up in the industry. I had an audition for Neighbors, like just after I met my husband. And then my acting bug just [00:15:00] kind of disappeared, which was strange for me because it was such a strong thing the majority of my life. It was my drive. But I think I just got really tired of the industry, and it was this weird thing where acting actually made me a more honest person in this kind of weird way where it’s, I discovered after getting to a certain level with acting that it really is all about honesty.
You know? And I’ve discovered now that stories- Mm … are really all about honesty. So- Mm … you know, the only way to do a really genuine performance on set, like in front of the camera specifically actually, because the camera’s so in your face and it reads what’s in your eyes, you know, you really have to believe in that moment that you are the character.
And that’s something I fell in love with as an actor. I loved- That moment of being completely suspending disbelief and being a character in a different place and being [00:16:00] completely honest to who that character was and emotions that they’re feeling at that time, you know? That was, that was something that I just completely fell in love with.
But I was– in acting, the industry itself is very different from honesty. You know, there’s a lot of people trying to take advantage, and a lot of unauthenticity. I don’t really know how to explain it, but it just ki- it just really put me off, and I got to the point where I was like, “You know, this isn’t actually what I wanna be doing anymore.”
So I actually was lost for a while, and my husband was like, “Is there anything else that you’d like to do?” And I said, “I’ve always wanted to write a book.” He’s like, “Well, why don’t you give that a go?” So that’s actually when I started writing “A Quilting in Speed.” And it took me years because even though I’d actually dabbled in writing stories my whole life, and I was always on the side creating characters and, you know, writing small scripts and monologues and stuff like that, it was [00:17:00] very different writing a book.
And what I’ve learned now is whenever you start something new, you’re using different parts of the brain, right? It’s something you’ve never done before, so you’re actually creating those new neural pathways. So it’s really frustrating because you’re like, “I know exactly where I wanna be,” but then when you actually try and get there, it’s like the pathways just aren’t there.
Stumble through for ages and just work, work, work until those connections are made. So yeah. It took me a long time to really figure that out and go through that journey. But I’m so glad I did because it just feels like the absolute right thing for me. I feel like I’m like, “Yes, I’ve been a writer my whole life.
This is what I’m meant to do,” because it’s all about that honesty. You know, I get to play all the characters I wanna play. I can play male and female, you know, without that mattering. I can play villains and good guys. And when I’m writing, it’s that same honesty, you know, that I get to tap into which I [00:18:00] just really love.
I hope that answered your question.
Andrew: No, that was expertly navigated. I felt like I could just sit back and you brought us to where we wanted, needed to be. And I, I even feel like… So yeah, for people who don’t know, Equillian’s Key is your first book, and I, I just bought this ’cause I was like, “Oh, it’s, it’s so cool.”
Like, this is my friend who did this, and like, it’s just, And it shows that people you know can do these types of things, like write a book, right? And, and it just seemed interesting and I, I genuinely, like, really enjoyed it and was like, I could imagine every scene. And I think to your strength there of, of being able to sort of inhabit a character, it– I think one of the, the big challenges of writing fiction is that you have to sort of be true to those characters, right?
So sometimes, like, you come in and you’re like, “I wanna write a story about this, this, and this,” and you have, like, certain plot points in mind or, like, a theme or a moral or something that you wanna have happen. And then you start writing, and then if you’re really [00:19:00] in those characters, it might be like the character’s like, “Well, I wouldn’t say that,” or, “I wouldn’t do that.”
And then you’re like, “Oh, but what do I do now?” Right? Like, do I force them kind of on that path, or do I kinda go… And it’s this weird sort of, like, split personality thing that I feel like your background and your talents would align well in. And, and I, I really got that sense that you weren’t just, like, trying to get us to a certain destination.
You were just sort of like, bad things happen, characters get lost and it’s not all, like, well mapped out. And I don’t know maybe it’s resolved in, in, you know, book 47. I’m not sure how- … how many you have planned, but I’m, I’m curious about the journey ahead.
Kira: Yeah. So I mean, I’m planning right now seven books.
Um- Okay … and the reas- the only reason why is because in the world of Equillian, um, everything in nature comes in sevens. Mm. So if I don’t write seven books, it’s gotta be at least 14 books. Mm. So I’m hoping to get it in [00:20:00] seven books. But every book that I write, the world gets so much deeper and so much richer, and there’s, there’s so many little side characters that I’m like, “Ooh, I could write a, I could write a book about that,” you know?
Yeah. So who knows, maybe, you know, maybe other series spinoffs or things like that. But, um, yeah, your, the start of your question kind of with characters, you know, that having their own, you know, their own ideas and things to do that’s completely how I write my books. I’m s- all about the characters, and the world as well.
I love world-building. Um, but for me, the world, it’s just a place I wanna be. Yeah. I mean, that’s really why I created my world is just like, this is the place that I wanna be with all of my favorite things in it, and things that that need to be there for the characters. Mm-hmm. Um, so it’s really primarily about the characters, and once I have [00:21:00] my characters really well-established, they basically write the books for me.
Mm-hmm. Because everything that happens, it’s like, “Oh, well if they do this, then that would happen, or if that happened- Mm-hmm … they would do this because of who they are.” Mm-hmm. And so it is exactly what you’re saying, that kind of cascading events that happens from the characters, because once you know who they are, they wouldn’t…
Even if you want them to go down path B if that’s not what they would do because of their past experience and who they are, you know, if you force them to go down path B, then in my opinion, you know, you’ve lost that honesty, and- Mm-hmm … I think your audience picks up on that hon- honesty really well.
You know- Same with acting. If a person on the screen doesn’t really believe what they’re doing, it’s really hard as a viewer to… Yeah, it’s just pretty much impossible to believe it also, right?
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: So I feel like that’s the same with writing is… I mean, that always pulls me out of a book if the character does something where I’m like, “They wouldn’t [00:22:00] do that.”
And I’m like, “That…” I’m like, “I don’t believe it,” and it totally pulls me out of the story. So yeah, I think that’s-
Andrew: I just also wanna say thank you because I’ve been not only seeing your sort of, your writing, but kind of learning from it and being able to ask you questions and get lots of answers has been really helpful.
And I even remember I, I briefly worked with a writing coach, and I, at one point, was working with her and then I, I sort of just felt stuck. And I’m curious if, if you’ve ever encountered that the dreaded writer’s pr- block sort of feeling. And what my writing coach at the time suggested was just, “I think you’re not really ready to write this just yet.
I think you need to go back and write backstories for each character.” I think I was ready to write it, but then doing the character backstory just helped so much because I got to that place where it’s like, “Okay, now I really know who that person is.” Whereas before I was kind of like, I think I could, I could wing it.
You could sort of improv it and go on the fly, and the personality would develop, and I think some people write that way. But in this case it did help [00:23:00] me, I think to further define it so I sort of knew, “Okay, w- no matter what happens, I know where this person’s come from.” That, that kind of ended up being the grounding for that, even though that book is yet to be finished, but…
Kira: It will get there.
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: Yeah, no, for sure. No, that was actually excellent advice. I was gonna say like I wouldn’t agree with you’re not ready to write. You’re… Like, I’ve heard that so many times from, from like big writers that are like, “Well, I wasn’t ready to write that book then, so I did all this other stuff in my career, but it was the book I really wanted to write.
I did all this other stuff in my career until I got to the point where I thought I was ready and came back to it.” I’m like, “You’re always… It’s not that, you know, it’s not that you’re not ready to write a book. It’s that you have to do more work.” You know, if you’re not at the point, if you’re like, “This is not the standard where I really wanna be,” you have to do, continue working and just continue working on it and focusing on it until you get to that point.
And you can do that with other stories, sure, but at the end of the day, you know, it’s still just putting that work in. And that is for [00:24:00] sure my recommendation. If anybody find themselves stuck It’s tackling it in a different way. So it’s stepping back and saying, “Okay, well instead of sitting here trying to force out writing when it’s not working,” to then do the character work, do the work on world-building, you know, step out and be like, “Okay, well let me just fill out details of the world a little bit more.”
And one of the ways I do that is I actually, ’cause I’m such a visual thinker, I go to Pinterest and I just create picture boards of things. So I’ll be like, I have this place in my mind, I wanna find physical pictures that are as close to what I imagine as possible. And then in that journey, I do find things that are, are very similar to what I imagine, and then I’m able to create kind of visual board for myself.
But a lot of the time I find other stuff that really inspires me, where I’m like, “Oh, that is that place.” You know, I’ll recognize pictures as like, oh, that’s part of Sky View, that’s part of [00:25:00] West Stock, you know, just scrolling through things. And then I’m creating these picture boards. Then it means when I go back to writing, I have so much more in my mind to play with, you know, that I have so many pictures.
Even things like interior design or architecture, you know, it always helps looking at pictures of that stuff because when you are writing your interiors or your world, you know, there’s so many amazing creatives out there that are so creative in their own fields, you know, that you can bring into your writing.
I mean, just- Mm … baffles me some of the fashion designers, you know, some of the costumes that they come up with that of course you’ll never see anybody wear, but some like really incredible stuff that is really fun to put into, you know, a fantasy world and- Mm … and things like that. So yeah, I find… The other thing is I find sitting in front of a blank screen can make it really hard to write.
I think one of the kinda double-edged short, uh, swords [00:26:00] for me as a writer is the beginning of my book, I had children.
Carly: Right.
Kira: Which I, I hardly had it started. And when you have babies, as you know, Andrew, it is so hard, you know, to work on, on your projects. Um, and so I, I had very little time in front of the computer to actually write.
So the majority of my story was actually created when I wasn’t in front of the computer. You know, I’d be sitting there with the kids, you know, just- cradling them or, you know, ’cause there’s so many moments with babies, you know, that you just have to sit there, but you’re not really doing anything, but you can’t go anywhere else.
You know what I mean? Yeah, so I’d use those moments to think about my story, and I’d try and just make sure I wrote every day, even if it was just for 10 or 15 minutes on my book, because what that did is it kept it at the very front of my mind. And if the story’s- Mm-hmm … at the front of your mind, it means whenever you have a chance, even if you’re cooking dinner, and your head goes to it, [00:27:00] and it actually– I actually read a whole article about this.
The creative state of your mind is the most creative when it’s kind of left alone. You know, you’re kind of doing something else, but your mind is on that creative thing, because then it starts just crossing things all together and working organically. And I think our biggest enemy as creators is the critical part of our brain.
Mm. You know, as soon as we start becoming conscious of what we’re doing and trying to kind of dictate each move, you know, it’s like, it’s like breathing. If you really think about breathing, you’re like, “Okay, I’m gonna breathe in. I’m gonna then breathe out.” You know? It makes something really simple really difficult, right?
But then, you know, the moment that you’re doing other things, you’re breathing perfectly.
Andrew: I had a moment related to this that I think is a good example because I, I’m not proud of it. It was me directing and giving really bad direction to an actor who was a friend. And [00:28:00] he was just like– He had to just, like, walk around, like, the background in this scene.
And then he came over and I was like, “It’s good, but can you do it again? And I just noticed you walk a little bit funny.” And then, like, I showed him the footage- … and we watched it, and he, he– I think, like, for him, that was just his normal walk. But like you said, as soon as you, like, call attention to it, now correcting that, it’s like, “Well, how do I correct it, and what do I do differently?”
And now he was, like, hyper-focused on his walk, and I think it just made it worse, right? Because now it’s like, “Okay, how do I walk naturally?” Authenticity. Walk naturally, you know? So the lesson is- Oh … don’t do that.
Kira: No, y- it’s so true, and it’s funny that you say that- Mm-hmm … because when I was an actor, when I was a kid and I’d do acting camps and stuff, I was great because I would just get into my imagination, totally believe I was a character, and, you know, play make-believe on stage.
Um, and then I started getting into, like, um… I started at the JC in Santa Rosa, I started doing acting [00:29:00] classes, and one of the first things the teacher would do is have us all walk in a circle in front of everybody, and then people would call, point out things about their walk. Like, “Oh, their left arm swings more than their right arm,” you know?
And like, “Oh, they stand up taller,” all these things. And for me, I was like, “I’m gonna walk perfectly,” you know? Get rid of any of my little ticks. Just so, like, totally missing the point.
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: But the, the thing is, is that it made me really conscious and that was… That’s just an example that they took all through those classes.
They were like, “We’re gonna make you super conscious. It’s everything that you do, so then you can change it.” But I think that was the most disastrous thing for me as an actor. As I came s- became so conscious of myself, it was really hard to get out of that. Mm-hmm. And it wasn’t until I was able to get out of that, that I was able to become a good actor, you know- Mm-hmm
in the end. So yeah, it is- Yeah … it is the biggest detriment for sure.
Andrew: I think you highlighted– I wanna just [00:30:00] even recap, ’cause I think they’re really valuable tips here. I think the idea of, like, first keeping your project at the front of your mind, like, that consistency I think is really im- important, ’cause, like, the longer you sort of wait in between, the harder it is to kinda go back.
And I think we were talking about this too earlier today. Yeah, especially when you have little kids, it’s hard because you– like, the windows are so small, right, in terms of when you get something done. And I imagine, especially in your case, like, this is a massive world that you’re building, so you’re, you’re literally like, like jumping out of that world into the real world, and then dealing with stuff, and then having to, like, dive down, swim all the way back down to your world, and it’s like, it’s a big transition, right?
So-
Kira: It’s all right. I’ll tell you a secret, Andrew. I’m always in my own world.
Andrew: Oh, okay. Fair enough. To,
Kira: to, uh, yeah, I mean, it’s not always a good thing, but yeah, my husband’s always like, “Where are you?” ‘Cause I’ll be like staring off into space.
Andrew: Yeah. But that’s- But, um- … that’s to the second point, right? Which is like, you’re not actually [00:31:00] writing when you’re at the keyboard or even with a pencil, right?
It’s like you’re… Like, I’ve done this too, where it’s like I walk my dog, and that’s a really good time to write ’cause it’s like I’m kind of, my body’s focused- Yes … on this other thing, but my mind is just wandering. And then if I can time it just right, it’s like walk the dog, write it in my head, come back, and then immediately get those thoughts down, right?
Like then it’s much more efficient, and yeah, it, for some reason, it just works, it works better that way.
Kira: So much better. I highly agree. I mean, that’s… And that’s even if I had 15-minute window every day-
Andrew: Mm …
Kira: I already knew what I was gonna write.
Carly: Mm.
Kira: You know? It’s like I’d h- I’d have whole scenes play out in my head like a movie, and then I could sit down and be like, “I got this whole scene now,” and just put it on paper, you know?
It’s like, in fact the second book that I wrote, I had the whole book written in my head before I even started it But I didn’t realize how big that story would be when it was[00:32:00]
put onto
Andrew: paper. Yeah. For the listener, I’m holding up both books, and my arm is shaking as I’m holding up the massive eight… 749 is it? Some- 730 page, yeah.
Kira: Yeah.
Andrew: Substantial increase.
Kira: Yeah, it’s about three times the size of the first.
Andrew: Kiera, if you continue at this rate, I don’t know if I’ll be able to pick up book seven.
I’m just worried. It
Kira: can be your daily exercise.
Andrew: Yeah.
Carly: It’ll be at the gym.
Kira: Yeah. Much more fun.
Andrew: Can you talk about… ‘Cause something very different that you did is the picture book. Yeah. What was sort of like the inspiration for that and, and the process compared to your other writing?
Kira: Yeah, cool. So, um, I actually…
I mean, I, I have several picture books which, um, just haven’t been illustrated yet, so-
Andrew: Oh …
Kira: I first got inspired by picture books from Shaun Tan. I don’t know, do you know Shaun Tan? No.
Andrew: Yeah.
Carly: I do.
Kira: Yes. He’s great. You would? Yeah. He’s Australian. Yeah. He’s an Aussie, so… Yeah. But yeah, [00:33:00] amazing, amazing artist who actually is from Fremantle here in WA.
But yeah, so he writes picture books and illustrates picture books, but his picture books are more adult-orientated. They’re not specified as adult- Mm … but I… Well, some of them probably are. They’re accessible to anybody, but they’re adult themes. And I just absolutely loved his work, but that’s not why I wrote “The World is Full of Assholes.”
That was just kind of what opened me up to the idea that picture books don’t have to only be for children. So, but yeah, what inspired me to write that book was I was almost finished with my book, and my oldest brother was going through a really hard time in his life, and it just made him be an A-hole to everybody.
So, and I grew up with him being my hero. Like, I really looked up to him. You know, he was always, yeah, some- an inspiration for me. But yeah, he just called me one day, and we hadn’t really been communicating for a while, [00:34:00] and this is when I was back in America for a stint. And he called me, and he just started ragging on me and, you know, telling me I wasn’t going anywhere in my life, and just, like, being complete A-hole, and it really shattered me.
Carly: Mm-hmm.
Kira: Um, especially just because I’d always thought of him, you know, as, as such a hero and inspiration. So, it… I couldn’t write. I couldn’t… I was so close to finishing “Aquillian’s Key” at that point. I was, like, just at the end. Mm-hmm. And I just couldn’t work on it. And so it’s even ma- it makes me emotional just talking about it now.
But yeah, so- Instead, my head just started writing The World is Full of Assholes. Because of course, it’s not my first encounter I’ve ever had with an asshole. You know, of all of us, you know, have had those encounters, had to deal with it. And it was also at the same time as the kind of Me Too movement, and in America things were starting to get quite polarized.[00:35:00]
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
Kira: Where, you know, people were stepping up to, to fight for minorities, which was so awesome, but some people were doing it in this way that was like, if you’re not a minority then you’re an asshole. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So it was creating this whole kind of, yeah, this, this real polarized thing where people were kind of saying, “You’re the problem,” instead of- Mm
sitting together and saying, “Let’s look at the problem together.” Um, so it just, with those two things kind of happening at the same time, it just made me really reflect on the fact that, hey guys, we all need to step back and be like, there are assholes everywhere, but they are literally everywhere. You know, it doesn’t matter where you come from, what color you are, you know, what gender class you are, it doesn’t matter.
There are wonderful people in all of those, and there are assholes in all of those, and let’s [00:36:00] just look within ourselves and be like, you know, at the end of the day, it’s a choice. Mm-hmm. Whether you wanna be an asshole or you wanna be a guardian and that’s inside all of us, you know, in every moment we make that decision.
So, you know, which is basically, I just told you the book, but that’s really, you know, where that came from. And so I sat down and I wrote that book, and it was, it was like therapy for me, and I just knew so many other people that kind of needed that book at that time as well. It took me a little while to actually bring it out ’cause I had to find an illustrator and stuff.
But yeah, so that’s what brought that
Carly: book. What was it like working with the illustrator? Was… So this was the first time writing a picture book?
Kira: Yeah, this was the first time. And yeah, so Nick Henderson is the one who illustrated. He’s amazing. Mm-hmm … I actually found his work on Instagram. I was looking for something that was kind of- somebody that had that Shaun Tan [00:37:00] type kind of aspect.
Mm-hmm. And, um, I just found his work on I- Instagram and loved it, and I saw that he’d done some work for DreamWorks and production companies just for storyboarding and stuff. So I just messaged him and I was like, “Hey, I have this… I’m an author, I’ve got this book, and I love your work. If you’ll look at it, you know, it’d be great if you could illustrate it.”
And so he… And he, I don’t know what was going on. I never had a, a proper chat with him. I don’t know what was going on in his life. But he read the book, and he was like, “That book made my day,” and agreed to- Wow … illustrate it. And he was super professional. I was in Australia. He’s actually from Missouri, which is funny because I had just left living there to move to Perth.
And, um, yeah, our circles had never passed. Our circles have never passed our, um, paths have never crossed. That’s a
Andrew: common Waldorf saying. Yeah.
Kira: Most people won’t know it, but… Let’s blame it on that. I like that. But, um, [00:38:00] yeah, so he just, he would send a… I think every week he would send- Mm … a next double page.
And then I actually, I got all the pictures and I formatted it myself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I put that on, um, the program and put all the words on the pictures and stuff. But yeah, I just absolutely loved his illustrations. I think he did an amazing job. So that’s a really rewarding experience. Yeah, I would, I would love to do that again.
So right now, I just applied for a grant. Right now it’s all about funding. So- Mm … if I get, if I get that to come through. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Andrew: Good luck.
Carly: Would it be for another writing project?
Kira: It would be, I mean, it would be for all of my writing projects. But yeah, the, the first thing that I would do would be to illustrate my next picture book.
I have this picture book- Mm … that I just finished recently, which is, um, Human Not Robot. Mm. Mm. And it’s, it’s all about how kind of… I mean, it’s done in the same fashion as The World is Full of Assholes, where it’s all rhyming, and it’s very [00:39:00] much for adults. But it’s, it’s all about how we as a society kind of try and make ourselves like robots.
Mm. Mm. You know, I feel like we try and hide our emotions and, you know, pretend like everything’s okay and, you know, we… We’re like, “Ah, don’t see my imperfections,” you know? “I’m, I’m the same as this person next to me. Don’t look at, like, any differences here,” you know? Kind of a thing. So it’s all about that, and how even in the workplace, you know- Mm
we expect people to… We kind of try and take the humanity out of people and expect people to just be able to work like robots. Like, “Forget your lunch break. You know, you don’t need that. Why are you making mistakes?” Mm. Mm-hmm. It’s like, “Didn’t get my lunch break,” right?
Carly: Yeah.
Kira: But yeah. So it’s, it’s that topic, yeah, put into a picture book.
Carly: It’s very relevant.
Andrew: Mm.
Carly: Very re- relevant, especially With, uh, everything that’s going on in the world that
Andrew: I actually wanted to introduce “The World is Full of holes” to my four-year-old son, but I’m like, [00:40:00] “Okay, he’s too young, at least for… I don’t want him to know that word yet.” But I, I actually think, like you hinted at later the guardians, and my one wish is I wish more people knew that, like, when I show this book, like if I’m in like a meeting or something, they’re like, “Ha ha, that’s funny.”
Or like they sort of assume it’s like, you know, just a satire or a dark comedy or something, or kind of social commentary. But I think you, you added this extra sophisticated layer in there, which is like every person is capable of both, right? It’s like an internal choice, and I, I really love that. And I think it’s, like you, you said, you know, it’s aimed at adult, but I think that is something that I know my son at least is like wrestling with and kind of like curious about, right?
Which is like, who are the bad guys? Who are the good guys? How do I know? Am I a bad guy? Like it’s something that I think even early on kids start to wrestle with, and I, I love any sort of writing that presents it in a more nuanced way, right? Where it’s not just like this guy looks evil, and he is evil, and everything he does is evil, right?
It’s like, oh how can we understand that character? And then can we see [00:41:00] the good character also make mistakes and fail? And it has a really cool concept. I’ll see if I can do a, a different version for him, a censored version, and I’ll let you know how that goes.
Kira: Well, what I did, ’cause I, I read it to my children- Yeah
what I did is I would take, I took the word assholes and replaced it with bully. Mm. So, I said the world is full of bullies. Mm. Hmm. And it actually made me think, I was like, “Maybe I should bring out a version- Hmm … you know, replacing that word that is more kid-friendly.” Because I did write it for adults at the time, but then I’ve, I’ve realized now, and now I market it more as a young adult book, crossover book.
But, you know, yeah, but as you say, it is, it’s relevant to all ages. Mm. And actually, um, a bookstore that carries it here did, um, put it in the kids’ section for a while, so it did- … it, it… And he was saying the reason why he bought the books for his store, the- Mm … the owner, was because he was saying that there [00:42:00] was a lot of people actually coming in, young people, their parents were looking for things on that topic, you know- Mm
specifically. Right. So, I thought that was really cool. It did, yeah, it has made me think, opened my mind up to that stuff.
Andrew: I know we’re, we’re getting close to the end, and I wanted to perhaps connect two dots, which is that al- although you mentioned moving away from acting I believe you are potentially moving into sort of a voice acting opportunity soon.
Is, is that something you could talk about?
Kira: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I am narrating Gwyn’s chapters for my audiobook. Yeah for Star-Locked. There’s already an audiobook version for Aquillian’s Key. So when I was first talking to the producer, I work with Audio Factory, which is an audiobook production company in England, and I chose them because I liked their work, but I also really wanted a British accent.
Andrew: Mm.
Kira: And I’ve been– So I’ve been working with them, you know, internationally, and when I first [00:43:00] was doing Aquillian’s Key and I was just chatting with the producer, and he found out that I had acting experience, he’s like, “Oh, why aren’t you narrating it?” And I just was like, “Oh, I do not have the time to do that right now.”
And I also didn’t feel like my voice was right for Gwenna. I was trying to choose narrators where I felt like their voice was, kind of fit the characters. And then I realized later, I was like, it’s really not about that. It’s about having a narrator that has a good range, is, is more important.
But people kept encouraging me. They kept saying, “You should really, like, do some narration for your second book.” And I thought, you know, I think that’d be really fun ’cause I actually love reading out loud to my children. I get a lot of joy out of that, so… And you know, I was like, I do have all this acting experience.
It’s, you know, and, and it would save a few dollars. It’s probably a good idea.
Carly: It’s all come full circle, right?
Kira: Yeah, exactly.
Carly: You did acting just for this moment- … so you could have the range.
Kira: But the funny thing is, is like here’s me going like, [00:44:00] “Yes, I’ve got all this acting experience. You know, I read to my kids every night and I’m putting on voices and I love it, and I’ve had encouragement from like my readings, you know, I’ve done publicly and stuff.”
So it’s like, I got this. And then I started, I started going down that path, right? I’ve converted my closet into a recording studio, you know. Bought myself a nice Rode mic and like, you know, have been doing all of that, and oh my goodness, it is totally different. Mm. I mean, there’s, there’s some crossover-
Andrew: Mm
Kira: but, um, yeah, it’s, it’s something– And I was chatting with ChatGPT about that recently. I don’t know if you have conversations with ChatGPT. ChatGPT, I love that one. I
do. Yeah. So I was like, “ChatGPT, like, I don’t know why I’m really struggling with this.” And it was like, “Well, it actually uses different parts of your brain.” It was like, it is some crossovers. And I was like, “Oh, the whole brain pathway thing,” like pathways that just don’t exist yet. So it actually has [00:45:00] been really challenging.
Andrew, who is narrating the Felix and Bastian’s chapters, ’cause I don’t know if you’re aware of this, Andrew, but in Star-Locked, it’s Bastian, Gwenna, and Felix’s stories all separate, but then like woven together- Mm-hmm … which is why it’s such a big book. Mm-hmm. Um, so all of Bastian and Felix’s chapters- Are narrated by Andrew, who’s an amazing…
Andrew Kingston, he’s an amazing actor. Not film, but stage. He’s already finished all of Felix and Fashion’s chapters, and they have so many more chapters than Gwynna. And I have been, I’ve been working so hard on it, but it’s, it’s just taken me so much longer than I anticipated. It’s been as, a steep learning curve, and I feel like I’m finally getting to that point where I’m figuring it out.
But yeah, and I think it’s, it’s also another thing I’ve had challenge, a challenge with it has been what we were talking about before, is that conscious thing. Mm-hmm. You know? I feel like one of [00:46:00] the biggest hurdles whenever you start something new is you’re so self-conscious of it, you know? It’s like, and then you’re unconscious of things that you’re doing wrong because you’re not aware that they exist yet, right?
So it’s kind of that combination of both, but it’s, it’s really different when I’m sitting in front of the mic from when I’m re- reading to my kids, because I’m like… There’s stuff weighing on that, you know, I’m conscious of what I’m doing. And so that’s probably been the main obstacle for me- Mm … is trying to, to relax so that my voice doesn’t sound like it’s like, “Once upon a time,” you know?
Yeah. Like, “Once upon a time,” you know? Kind of flowing and having that relaxed nature. And then I put so much time into working on the characters’ voices that then I’ve, I notice there’s times when I really lay- let the narration between the characters drop and stuff like that. So it’s all things I’ve, I’ve really had to work through.
But, um, I’m loving [00:47:00] it at the same time. It’s been a super rewarding experience, and I am getting that same high from it that I miss from acting, which is, you know, being able to engage with a character in that moment and really bring that honesty to it in a more performance aspect, you know? Which I am loving.
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: And it’s teaching me about writing as well, which is cool. Mm.
Andrew: Yeah. S- especially, like, hearing it out loud, right? Because then it’s for a lot of families, that might be how the actual story is experienced, right? So it’s probably really helpful. I, I sort of- For sure … I wish you had the chance, like you and, and Andrew, could do it together in a booth, right?
And have that interaction with each other. I’m sure that would make it even more fun.
Kira: Oh, it would be so good. That was something that I actually originally wanted to do, but then when I talked to the production company about it, they were like, “Yeah, that would actually be a lot more expensive and complicated.”
I was like, “Darn it.” I even wanted to put sound effects in there. I was like, “Can we [00:48:00] add like ocean sounds?” Yeah. One day. One day.
Andrew: One day. Yeah, those like high-end ones are really cool when they have like the- Yeah … the full music and sound effects and different actors and yeah.
Kira: I love it. It’s so good. Yeah.
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a dream. Actually, the dream is to one day get it as a television series because- Hmm … I just, I have such a visual sense of the whole world and series and characters, I would absolutely love to kind of see what actors did with it.
Andrew: And then VFX would be required because there’s a lot of like crazy things in it, and Carly might actually be working on the project then.
Kira: Of course.
Andrew: Yeah.
Carly: Yes.
Kira: In fact, why don’t we just start it right now?
Carly: Yep, and then you can star in it.
Kira: Oh, it’d be awesome. Yeah. It’d be a good experience. I’d love it. I would, I would have to be a pirate for sure.
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: Pirate cinematographer. Yeah. We got this, guys.
Carly: We
Kira: have it.
Andrew: Awesome. Well, we’re coming up on the time.
I [00:49:00] just wanna, yeah, say thank you, and I also wanna encourage you with all your other books, and even if ChatGPT says, “Kiera, please do not release Humans, Not Robots. This book is not appropriate.” “Why not just release all robots?” Don’t listen to it. That’s not the right advice. It sounds like you’ve got a really good group of people supporting you too, which is, is fantastic, and I think it shows in the work too.
So yeah. Yay. It’s been a pleasure.
Carly: Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Like I think I, I learnt a bit about… Like I’m not a writer myself, but I think the creative process, like the idea of creating new neural pathways, that makes so much sense. It just, of course it is. It’s always so hard to, to do any, any of your projects am- amongst, you know, our busy lives, um, especially a- as a parent.
So it’s good to know that it can be done, and y- you never know where it will take you, like from [00:50:00] an actor to writing to voice acting. Like it, I f- I feel like- The root of everything that you’ve done is about honesty and like choosing, like you knowing that you are a writer, and that’s like your role in this world.
So I, I see that genuine side and it’s a delight to hear you talk about it.
Andrew: Yeah.
Kira: Thank you. Oh, it’s such a joy. Thank you, guys. It’s just been such a pleasure. And so lovely to see you, Andrew. It’s been a million years. It has, yeah.
Andrew: But hopefully we look exactly the same as before. Yeah.
Kira: You know what?
You do actually look exactly the same.
Carly: Correct answer.
Andrew: Thank you. It’s the Zoom filter and all this makeup
and, you know. I, so I would, yeah, urge our listeners to check out K.L. Harris and Make Believe Press, and, uh, also check out Carly’s artwork because Carly also puts a lot of cool, I, I would say, truth and [00:51:00] authenticity in her work too both digital and, and actual physical real paint going on the page and making something really cool.
So, um, yeah it’s always fun to be able to connect artists and actors and writers and creative people, and encourage everyone listening to just keep making stuff. Just go out there and do it. It’s hard at the, at the start, but if you just keep at it, you can do it. Right, Carly?
Kira: For sure, 100%.
Carly: Arrr, me heartie. Yeah. Arrr,
Kira: me heartie.
Carly: Do a much better one than me.
Kira: I’ve had a lot more practice.
Andrew: Yeah.
Is there a, a way to say goodbye in Perth? Is there like a certain slang or expression like, “I’ll see you when the toilet bowl s- spins the other way,” or something
Kira: like that? I like that. No way. I’ll have to start using that. No, unfortunately. I mean, of course, it’s, “G’day, mate,” for, you know, saying hello.
Right. Right. And, and people shorten [00:52:00] everything, so instead of good morning, it’s normally just morning.
Andrew: Okay.
Kira: You know? Just morning. Yeah, I don’t think there’s a goodbye. Is there?
Carly: I don’t think so. No. Just a lot of mate. Yeah.
Andrew: Yeah,
Kira: a lot of mate.
Andrew: But Carly , you’re good at goodbyes.
You have a variety of goodbyes.
Carly: A variety of goodbyes. Hmm.
Andrew: Now you’re on the spot.
Carly: Oh, sweating. The last one I used was just the classic, “See you, see you later, alligator.” But, everyone can reply with, “In a while, crocodile.”
Andrew: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Carly: And then that’s- Love that … that’s how we end it.
Andrew: That was good.
Carly: So- See you
Kira: later. See you
Andrew: later. See you later, alligator.
Carly: In a while, crocodile.
Andrew: Yeah. Thank you. Bye.